Loud pipes – Willy’s take on it all

By
Willy Williamson
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“Pissed-off citizens are slowly but surely mobilizing to fight against loud pipes. In recent years, city after city across Canada has started its own campaign to put an end to loud pipes.  Edmonton, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Bathurst, Saint John, St. John’s, and Kelowna have all taken first steps in the fight against loud motorcycles, to name a few. Quebec City has actually gone so far as to ban motorcycles from the Old City, because of their noise.” – Zac Kurylyk, Canada Moto Guide, July 2016

Last July, CMG’s Zac Kurylyk was fairly confident he’d put to rest the myth about loud pipes saving lives. He wrote about the Doppler effect and how there’s no evidence to support having loud pipes on a motorcycle actually making it safer. [Click here to read the article -Ed.]

Unfortunately, thanks to a lifetime of listening to planes, trains and automobiles – and whining — I couldn’t hear him.

Can’t you hear the rumble reverberating off the metal wall of the container? Willy loves it, but do you?

Kurylyk may be spot-on and there’s simply no denying that an obnoxiously loud motorcycle is both irritating and ridiculous, but in my opinion, the bigger picture here has little to do with noise violations.

When officials start telling us our motorcycles are too loud, and that it’s become such a problem mass enforcement is required, my inner rebel screams this is just another example of police and government ganging up on bikers. It’s been happening ever since that first disgruntled World War II veteran came home from battle, cut the sleeves off his Levi’s jacket, hacked the muffler off his Harley-Davidson and went for a rip with his buddies.

The police may have us believe it’s the citizens who are fed up and mobilizing against the evil that is loud motorcycles, but if you dig deeper you’ll often discover it’s not the public initiating these concerns at all. Often it’s the work of a few pissed-off cops (or retired pissed-off cops), convinced anyone riding a Harley-Davidson is escaping a bank robbery.

While I respect most cops and appreciate their work and its challenges, I will say it’s been my experience that there’s a small percentage of officers with a general hate-on for burly, bearded men on Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I’ve actually had a policeman tell me in rural Manitoba, “we don’t want your kind around here.” Our crime was buying gas. When I asked him what exactly “my kind” was he just smirked and told me to fuck off before I regretted it. We took his advice and high-tailed it out of town.

He wasn’t concerned about the sound of our bikes; he was worried we’d stick around and start up a meth lab. There were three of us in the group: a teacher, a carpenter and me. I can see not wanting a writer in your town, but the other two are straight-up solid citizens who did not deserve to be profiled for simply riding motorcycles.

Willy says he shouldn’t be discriminated against, just because he’s a big guy on a big bike.

While that was only one instance, I’ve had other encounters with the police while on a motorcycle and been treated fairly and respectfully. It really depends on the attitudes of both you and the officer, and his or her agenda or lack thereof.

My point here is a great deal of this hyperbole regarding loud pipes is simply a smokescreen manufactured by The Man to rid the streets of evil bikers.

Can you honestly say, unless you live next door to a biker bar, that the sound of motorcycles is actually going to ruin your summer? It’s not as if these loud motorcycles are parked outside your bedroom window running 24/7 like your neighbour’s air conditioner. Where do we really fall in the big picture that is noise pollution? What about all those planes, trains and automobiles? What about the weed whackers, leaf blowers, lawn mowers and that annoying dog next door?

Sure, Harley-Davidsons are typically louder than most other passenger vehicles on the road, but about 99 per cent of the guys I ride with aren’t on obnoxiously loud motorcycles. They have swapped out the restrictive stock pipes for an aftermarket set that gives the bike that iconic Harley sound and slightly boosts the horsepower. V-twin engines are simply high-volume air pumps, and the better the air flows, the better they perform. To me the sound they make, when properly tuned and fitted with the correct exhaust, is music to my ears.

Willy’s 1997 Sportster was so loud, even he got fed up with the noise and put the proper mufflers back on. And what’s with that puddle?

Sure, I’ll admit over the years I’ve had plenty of loud motorcycles. And I’m not here to baffle you with a bunch of bullshit about loud pipes saving my life. Back then my pipes were loud because I was a selfish punk who was constantly seeking attention. I outgrew that. A few years back, one of my buddies installed basically open pipes on his Harley. It was loud. Stupid loud. I could hear him arrive home safely, five kilometres away from my place. His bike sounded like a low-flying plane. Dogs would bark in his wake. He was annoying. He was a selfish punk, too. He also grew up — and installed proper mufflers.

If you’re a selfish punk on a Harley, you’re probably not reading this. But on the off chance you are, dummy up, install some proper mufflers and give The Man one less reason to hassle you. That said, depending on how you look and what you ride, you may still occasionally get pulled over on your motorcycle for riding your motorcycle.

It happens to me far less often now. In recent years, my bikes have rumbled about halfway between stock and obnoxious. I just bought a 2017 Harley-Davidson Street Glide and had Harley’s performance-minded Street Cannon slip-on mufflers installed. They flow slightly better than stock pipes and have a nice growl that isn’t the least bit offensive and would surely pass any roadside decibel testing.

My 1949 Pontiac, however, is another story. That beast shoots flames from the tailpipes and rumbles like thunder when I mash the gas. However, the only attention I get in that car, from the cops or anyone else, is the thumbs up. Go figure.

No one seems to have a problem with Willy’s loud rat rod. Could the problem be an anti-bike bias, not an issue with vehicle noise?

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78 COMMENTS

  1. I’ve been reading all these comments as the Editor of Canada Moto Guide, finger poised over the button to cut everything off when it all deteriorates into abusive name calling – but it hasn’t done so. Rickey D is certainly on one side of the argument and makes his points well, and Willy et al are on the other and have also been reasoned in their responses. There’s been no reason to cut off debate, though I think all’s been said here now that needs to be said.

    For the record, I’m really impressed with the calibre of discourse here. If this was a newspaper site, everything would have descended into vulgarity and politics long ago, but we’ve kept it courteous and kept it real. That’s something to be proud of. Thank you.

  2. Well, that certainly polarized the audience.
    For the record, I’m in agreement with Mr. Holtsclaw.
    I spent several years volunteering my time with the police auxiliary.
    Originally I had thought to join the volunteer fire department, but my workplace (though willing to accommodate) was not in the same township as my home department, so the logistics did not make sense.
    A coworker suggested I inquire with the police auxiliary, and it turns out the idea was exactly right in my case.
    I had a good experience for the most part, and still have many friends on the force and also now retired.
    One thing I took away from my time working with various police officers – not all of them are deserving of my respect.
    Some were hypocrites – they felt the laws they were enforcing did not apply to them.
    Here’s the thing, I felt that if you wear the uniform and enforce the law, you should also be an example for others in respecting the law.
    For my part, I undertook to represent the uniform with the proper gravitas and responsibility that a position of trust demands.
    It didn’t take long to realize this was not the same mind set that some officers share.
    Mr. Holtsclaw writes with the same conviction and tone that earned my respect for the officers who do take their responsibilities seriously.
    In a world of liquid morals and sketchy authority, I appreciate and respect those who are deserving of the trust we place in them.
    Do I agree with everything Mr. Holtsclaw says? In the context of this article, yes I do, loud pipes = bad.
    Especially at 2am when the asshole who lives somewhere down the road fires past the house at full throttle and with open pipes. This went on for most of last summer and random nights of the week, making me wonder if he doesn’t work some kind of continental shift.
    As for Mr. Holtsclaw – I suspect he’d be a proper bastard if I knew him personally, though I also believe my difference of opinion would still respect his – wrong though either of us might be.
    The turd on the V twin noise maker – is just wrong in every sense of the word.

    • You! You, sir, are an American hero. Thank you, Dick.

      Thirty-one years protecting our liberty and freedoms. Others here may mock you, but I; well, I’m just a fan. You’re selfless mission to rid this world of the truly offensive and to protect not just society, but the children and geriatrics from the hazzards of exhaust noise pollution is to be lauded. Think of the children. I can’t express enough, the thanks we citizens owe you peace officers for the thankless and dangerous jobs you do, battling crime. Or loud pipes. Just to better this world.

      Now, I have been to Houston. And I know the proximity to Mexico means there may be some socialist Obama voters calling for police attention to be focussed more towards drugs and gang violence, but we all agree that ending excessive exhaust noise is policing dollars well spent. That, and more executions.

      I have read all of your posts, and am amazed that such an honourable man (and, it is honour. We speak English in Canada) as you has not only fought this scourge for thirty-one years riding professionally, but has continued to rage against the machine even whilst retired. And yet, obviously socialist types such as this McGarvey fellow accuse you of using your police powers for evil, instead of goodness, when we all know that what you were doing was not the un-constitutional-in-Canada profiling, but rather darn good police work. I mean, doesn’t he know “that the personality-type who rides and drives illegally loud has an “above average” record of engaging in other forms of antisocial conduct and in addition, these same individuals have a higher propensity of not paying their fines or showing-up for their court dates; hence, a higher warrant ratio.”? After all, you posted the numbers and references to peer-reviewed studies from accredited and respected western universities.

      And, you are so correct when you respond to “seeking attention and affirmation like a pimple-faced 6th grade hormone laden girl. If that offends you “rui,” so be it!” He truly has some nerve, doesn’t he. After all, what sort of name is “rui”? That doesn’t sound too American to me. More like Portuguese. Or Australian. Or Mongolian. Whatever it is, it isn’t American, and seems to be oddly similar to Mexican. Either way, I bet he isn’t white.

      Now, I fear I must admit a failure on my part. When I first read: “some of the meanest, nastiest, defiled, segments of the City and having dealt with some true low-lifes by anyone’s definition”, and “arrogant, entitled, lying, deceiving, hedonistic, narcissistic, group of men, young and old”, and “behavior of a bully-thug”, I naturally thought you were refferring to police, and in particular the Houston police. What with the costumes uniforms worn, designed to impart a psychological dominence and aura of fear and intimidation by dint of the colours chosen, and the increasing militarization of police. My bad.

      And, when you said: “I find Willy’s obfuscation and denial of culpability laughable and most telling.”, I said’AMEN, BROTHER!’. Willy is fat. And Willy rides a Harley. With aftermarket pipes sold legally in Canada. I bet he doesn’t even believe in Jesus! It’s a shame you are not residing in Winnipeg, so that you may show your badge and bully that guy Willy.

      Dicky? May I call you that? Dicky, you are one of America’s true heroes. Your posts don’t seem un-educated or racist at all. And that device you use where you combine the words “cult” and “culture” through means of parenthasis? Just brilliant! You must have had marketing people help you with that. It is folk like you, and your attitude that makes America great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for weighing in on this debate and shining a new light upon the blight that is excessive exhaust noise. You are like a stream of bat’s piss. When all about you is dark, you shine out like a shaft of gold.

      Vote Trump

      • Oh, the years of policing cowards on loud motorcycles, much like Mr. Jim Roberts…has no defense for his thuggery, but he sure is fast and loose with the hyperbole….a real tough guy until the handcuffs are clicked closed or the holding cell door slams shut…the apologies and pleas for mercy from the backseat of a patrol car – “why are you ‘picking on me?'”

        What’s the problem Jimmy – can’t argue the facts so you cower behind biker thuggery? Shame on you Jimmy…it’s time to take the playing cards out of your spokes Jimmy – you’re bothering the neighbors.

        Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
        Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

        Here are some of your “running” buddies and their comments…unfortunately, you’re not the first hedonist to drink from the fountain of biker thuggery… https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/loud-biker-mentality-1949-v-21st-century/

        • Ah, Dicky. Hate to say this, but all of my street pipes are quiet and legal. And, unlike you, or Willie, or Rui, or the clowns you hate, I do not ride a Harley.

          But, I do know one thing; you couldn’t catch me. I also know that Rui is a racist: “loud crying screaming evil fighting kids who “rack disciprine”. and he makes noise with his bikes. He also is a man of his time his upbringing and his place! You, Dicky, on the other-hand immediately attacked “Rui”, and we all know why.

          Listen, sweetie; why don’t you just chill the f*ck out and tilt at greater windmills? Leave the noise-bitching to moi (sorry, Dicky, that’s French. I know it offends you Texans) and the rest of the normal folk on this planet.

          • 1) You’re still a coward, immature…and a boil on the backside of society.
            2) Why would I want to catch you? I don’t associate with biker thugs.
            3) This is NOT an LGBTQ site…why are you calling another man “sweetie”?
            4) Why are you using vulgarity in order to express yourself…It’s been said that those who are unable to express themselves void the use of vulgarity are ignorant and of a low IQ…are you representative of this well-founded truism Jim?

            Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
            Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

            A Cop’s Rant: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/loud-biker-thuggeryabsurdityhypocrisy-a-cops-rant-video/

  5. Accidentally clicked on “Officer” Rick’s name instead of his comment…holy shit – the guy’s nuttier than squirrel poop! Best to leave him to rant his nonsense, people like this (in case you don’t believe they exist…click on his name) are beyond help.

    • Hey, just because I know my job, the law and did that job…would you prefer an officer be ignorant of his responsibilities? If you needed help with a problem, would you not prefer an officer who could actually provide that help…remember, I’m old school…when law enforcement was a passion and an officer was expected to “do the job” and he was responsible for those in his area of responsibility…I understand that your more acquainted with today’s PC law enforcement community, hear no evil, see no evil, just get along and go home…I was a motorcycle officer for years…traffic enforcement and dignitary escorts were my primary function and you ridicule and insult me because I know the law and I did my job? Shame on you!

      Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
      Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress…

    • “Accidentally clicked on “Officer” Rick’s name instead of his comment…holy shit – the guy’s nuttier than squirrel poop! Best to leave him to rant his nonsense, people like this (in case you don’t believe they exist…click on his name) are beyond help.”
      Rui, you’re being too kind – this troll is crazier than a sh*thouse rat…

  6. How about accepting that there can be *some* compromise in the sound level. I have 4 motorcycles. Two of them have stock exhausts. One of them, a vintage sport bike, has a typical Hindle aftermarket exhaust on it … not because it’s louder, not because it performs any better, but rather because the stock exhaust for that bike with your beloved EPA compliance markings on it is unobtainium (and, being made of mild steel, prone to rusting out). Without an aftermarket exhaust the bike wouldn’t be on the road.

    For that matter, one of the two bikes with stock exhausts … doesn’t have EPA compliance markings on it, because it’s a model that wasn’t sold in the USA, so it never needed EPA compliance markings. (It has the european e-marking on it. Do you know what that is?)

    And then there’s the remaining one … the new one, whose stock exhaust system was designed to comply with the new, extremely tough, Euro 4 requirements. (And EPA, as well, but Euro 4 is the tougher standard). There are two problems with this. One, the stock muffler is enormous, ungainly, and HEAVY (19 pounds). Two, the engine was so quiet that I couldn’t hear it while riding. Couldn’t tell when to change gear. Solution; A Hindle slip-on. It’s 17 pounds lighter. It looks better. And I can now hear the engine – although, in combination with the main muffler/catalyst under the engine, it is in no way obnoxious – it’s just right.

    By the way, I find unmuffled Harleys (and unmuffled sport bikes) to be obnoxious, too. But limiting everyone to strictly original equipment goes over the top. Regulation to a reasonable point is all well and good. Overregulation has side effects … and then people do something about it.

    Ever heard of SAE J2825? Look it up. Everything I ride on the street, including those with aftermarket mufflers, is in compliance with that standard. That standard was intended to strike a reasonable balance, allowing riders to use aftermarket equipment while not being so loud as to be a public nuisance.

    If you can’t accept that … then I’m glad for the “retired” in your signature.

    • 1) US EPA Muffler Labels are required on all street use motorcycles in the United States beginning with the 1983 year model.

      Total Motorcycle Noise Emissions Limitations as per the US EPA’s Code of Federal Regulations for street use motorcycles in the United States,

      1983 – 1985: 83 dB(A) “total” motorcycle noise emissions.
      1986 – present: 80 dB(A) “total” motorcycle noise emissions

      If you have any questions regarding the particulars of the law, please see my video on YouTube titled “Loud Motorcycles (Pt. 1) THE LAW, by Rickey D. Holtsclaw

      2) Any import motorcycle (a sample thereof) beginning with the 1983-year model is required to pass the J331a full throttle drive by testing procedure – if your motorcycle is pre-1983 it will be governed by local and state law.

      3) The modification to your motorcycle relevant to the Hindle slip-on is illegal in the United States as per the Code of Federal Regulations unless it is permanently embossed with an US EPA muffler label positioned in a readily visible location. Forty-six of the forty-nine state muffler laws contain statutory elements that mirror the protective intent of the Code of Federal Regulations – though most local and State law enforcement is ignorant of their own muffler laws let along the Federal Law; therefore, you chances of having a problem is very slim…

      4) The US EPA limits motorcycle and medium-to-heavy duty truck noise emissions for ONE specific purpose – the PROTECTION of the health and welfare, the quality of life of the American Citizen. The OEM 80 dB(A) “total” motorcycle noise emissions is the “minimum” level of noise emissions protection for the general public exposed to same and the SAE J331a testing procedure is used as per the Code of Federal Regulations.

      The SAE J331a full-throttle motorcycle drive-by sound test is conducted in an environmentally/scientifically controlled testing environment and the test motorcycle is throttled along a designated path to maximum brake horsepower at which time every moving element, in their totality, not just the muffler output, is measured at 49.2 feet on each side of the motorcycle – this testing procedure provides a more “real world” result for evaluating the necessary protections for the general public – the test motorcycle cannot exceed 80 dB(A) total motorcycle noise emissions in order to pass the required test – subsequent to passing the test, every motorcycle muffler for that make and model motorcycle must be permanently embossed with a US EPA muffler label positioned in a “readily visible location” in addition to a frame label that articulates at what RPM that motorcycle reached its 80 dB(A) total emissions – and – the EPA also enacted tampering restrictions which are articulated in the owners manual that accompanies each motorcycle – it advises you that it is illegal to tamper with the acoustical dampening qualities of the installed muffler …

      Fact: after research and input…the 80 dB(A) maximum total motorcycle noise restriction has been determined to be the “minimum” safe level of protection for our children, our elderly, our handicapped and our families…OEM is the LAW and it is the responsibility, as per the Noise Control Act of 1972 – the Congressional Statement accompanying that Act, of our local and State enforcement entities to ensure that those production motorcycles maintain their safe OEM muffler status for the “LIFE” of the motorcycle – Fact: our police have PATHETICALLY failed the vehicular noise beleaguered American citizen for forty-years!

      5) You do not have the right to ignore the laws that were enacted for the protection of the health and welfare of the citizenry – regardless of one’s likes or dislikes, operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway in the United States is NOT a “right,” but a privilege granted them by the State – you agree, when you take custody of your drivers license, to be obedient to the motor vehicle laws. You have no right to pick and choose what laws you will or will not obey!

      6) Yes, I’ve heard of the SAE J2825 Stationary Motorcycle Test…I’ve personally used the test for evaluation purposes – it is faulty and does not accurately represent the protective intent of the SAE J331a testing procedure. The SAE J2825 testing procedure does not strike a reasonable balance because very few enforcement entities use the procedure – sound meters are problematic in both enforcement protocol and adjudicatory protocol. If a muffler law or ordinance does not contain the statutory elements that permit the use of a sound meter and thus specifically designate sound dB(A) limits and testing parameters, that sound meter is NOT admissible as evidence. Typically, expensive Type 1 or Type 2 sound meters are required for enforcement protocol and very few police departments are willing to purchase a sufficient quantity of these sound meters for effective enforcement. Sound meters hamper vehicular noise enforcement protocol and there is more than sufficient legal precedent to undergird the “subjective” analysis of a vehicle’s noise output.

      I personally developed an enforcement strategy called “Noise Comparison Analysis” (NCA) that garnered me a 99.8% conviction-rate for all motor vehicle cases brought before me for adjudication. NCA uses the OEM – Labeled, Factory-Installed muffler as the “objective” standard. The SAE J2825 is not a recognized replacement for the SAE J331a testing procedure and the use of sound meters are too expensive, time consuming, require training and ambient noise control, opens a plethora of unnecessary legal challenges during adjudication. You can read about the Noise Comparison Analysis” enforcement strategy on my WordPress page titled: “Motorcycle Noise Enforcement – 101.”

      Fact is, if the US EPA factory-installed muffler has already been tested and approved and the motorcycle so equipped does not exceed the 80 dB(A) maximum level of noise emissions – AND – seeing that the 80 dB(A) maximum level of noise emissions is the “minimum” level of protection for the general public…does it not stand to reason that any noise emanating from an exhaust that exceeds the OEM factory-installed muffler is “excessive or unusual noise” and thus a violation of the law? — seeing that 46 of the 50 States muffler laws are constructed with statutory elements that require a motor vehicle muffler to prevent “excessive or unusual noise” or they require the “factory-installed muffler” or the “original equipment” or a muffler that conforms to the specifications of the “factory-installed muffler” is not the OEM, Factory-installed muffler the “objective” standard thus eliminating the need for the faulty SAE J-2825 Stationary Motorcycle Test? My State has a statutory element that prevents the retail of any motor vehicle muffler that does not conform to the specifications of the “factory-installed muffler.”

      7) You and many thousands of LOUD Biker thugs are glad I’m retired – and … so am I!

      You might also find my article informative “The Truth about Loud Motorcycles the Police Won’t or Can’t Tell You” on WordPress…I would share the URL but this forum won’t post it.

      Rickey D. Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
      Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

      • J331a is not possible to perform in the field. J2825 was meant to be.

        A motorcycle that wasn’t sold in the US market won’t necessarily have that EPA compliance label on its stock exhaust system. (Mine doesn’t.) Guess what; I don’t live in the USA, although I travel there. You might wish to consider the international conventions on road traffic that allow tourists to travel through other countries with vehicles technically non-conforming with local regulations as long as they conform in their home market regulations. (Mine do.)

        But, there’s obviously no changing your closed mind. So even though I find the straight-pipe bikes obnoxious as well … you can take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it.

        There are very few people that I will tell that to.

        • 1) The J2825 is a field test for motorcycle noise, but it does NOT duplicate the protective standards of the SAE J331a. The J2825 requires a Type-1 or Type-2 sound meter and a vibrometer if you want any hope of a conviction in court. Legislation must be written specifically for the SAE J2825 sound meter testing parameters. Officers must be trained in the use of sound meters and specific testimony regarding logarithmic scales, ambient noise concerns, measuring instrument used for distance from muffler at the proper angle – sound meter certification and re-certification testimony – was the throttle steady, who accelerated the motorcycle for the RPM test, was the officer alone? – explanation of the testing procedure and explain why various RPM requirements for number of cylinders? — testing site concerns – echos? surrounding traffic? Where was you patrol vehicle or patrol motorcycle…was it running at the time…were there airplanes or other forms of noise in the area at the time of the test?

          Sound meters are the death of vehicular noise enforcement – this is why the Motorcycle Rights Organizations smile at the thought of requiring sound meter legislation…they know full well that an overwhelming number of police departments don’t have the budget or the manpower to allot for noise enforcement when sound meters are a required instrument…and why?

          The factory-installed muffler has already been tested and tested thoroughly – that’s your “objective” standard…requiring sound meter enforcement is redundant and unnecessary!

          2) If a motorcycle is of foreign origin and it does not have the US EPA certification label, it is incumbent upon the owner before operating said motorcycle on the public roadways of the United States to have the motorcycle tested for sound emissions compliance. In all the years I’ve ridden motorcycles and cited/incarcerated LOUD bikers, I’ve never run across a foreign import that did not have the US EPA label or the owner had removed the US EPA approved muffler and replaced it with a NOT FOR ROAD USE aftermarket exhaust. Honda, BMW, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, KTM…they should all be properly labeled by the manufacturer – if you purchase a BMW under their try it before you buy it…or buy it in Germany and ride it before shipment, your BMW should be shipped with the US EPA labeled muffler affixed to the motorcycle.

          3) My mind is not closed…I’m simply telling you what the law says and what you’re expected to know and abide by. You, are the closed minded one and vulgar, arrogant as well. If you don’t want the truth and you want to set your own standards…why bother me with your narcissistic personality?

          Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
          Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – FB, YouTube and WordPress

      • You’re f*cking insane!

        And no one is impressed that you are a cop. As a matter of fact, you lose points for that. You are batsh*t crazy.

        • 1) Again with the vulgarity…and you’re calling me insane?
          2) Not trying to impress anyone Jim or Rui…and believe me…you would be the last on a long list that I would be concerned about “impressing.” Again, you’re a vulgar, hedonistic, narcissistic infected boil on the backside of society…you’re vulgar opinions are baseless, irrelevant, inconsequential and frankly, ignorant rants…why would I want to impress you??? – I’d do anything possible to “avoid” you.
          3) I understand that in today’s PC, Morally Relativistic society…the “truth” – dignity – honor – respect – honoring the rule of law – respecting one’s neighbor – these are norms, mores, social constructs that have become irrelevant and “old fashioned;” therefore, I do not expect a hedonistic moron to understand the value of the concepts…but, that’s okay…you’re just being you!

          https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/loud-bikers-ask-c-calm-responds-video-2/

          Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
          Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

          • “… you’re a vulgar, hedonistic, narcissistic infected boil on the backside of society.”

            I could not agree more.

            But, it is still “honour”, you illiterate idiot. Be a dear and learn our language, will you?

            Do not respond to this. I have tired of you. You are an idiot.

            • 1) Obviously you don’t understand the meaning of “honour” – perhaps you meant “honor” or…in your case…”dishonor?” Anyway, your Morally Relativistic rendition of “honour” is unacceptable – for a man of honour is one that is respectful, has dignity, some semblance of worthiness…it’s is obvious from your discourse that these “honorable” qualities are, in no way, associated with your personality or your inner-man…
              2) Apparently, you have internalized a false sense of “authority” and feel rather free about using your vulgarity and demands…FYI…I will respond to you if I so desire…if you don’t appreciate that…that’s on you tough guy, I didn’t initiate a conversation with you nor do I desire one; therefore, you are free at this point to tuck you little tail and go about your narcissistic business…I’m not impressed!!!

              Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
              Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

              Loud Motorcycles? The Law: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/loud-motorcycles-the-law/

  7. Received some push-back on promoting the “truth” about LOUD biker thuggery on this forum, that’ fine…it’s expected. With that said, let me be crystal clear about the scourge of riding and driving LOUD on our public roadways.

    A true “MAN” does NOT modify a motor vehicle to emit noise emissions over that which the Canadian or US. Government has restricted said vehicle as produced by the manufacturer. Anyone who opts to remove the quiet, compliant, approved, safe, factory-installed muffler and replace same with an aftermarket “NOT FOR ROAD USE” exhaust that emits in multiples the safe restricted dB(A) of the factory-installed muffler then proceeds out onto a public roadway and uses that illegal NOISE as an instrument of audible assault against our children, our elderly, our handicapped, our families – this is not the behavior of a respectable “man,” this is the behavior of a social deviate, a bully-thug. The behavior is worthy of incarceration not simply a citation and release. If the men in our society had a pair, they would stand up and stop the problems of vehicular noise thuggery as opposed to relying on our impotent and participatory police to actually do their job…why, because the police refuse to intercede on behalf of the vehicular noise beleaguered citizenry…enough is enough!

    I’m pleased that Willy replaced his factory-installed muffler with supposed “compliant” US EPA approved slip-on’s, but the jury is still out on the legality of those slip-on’s seeing that Harley self-tested and “approved” them for US EPA certification…I don’t trust Harley at all…neither should the US EPA after suing them recently for $15-million dollars for their EPA violations. Truth be told, the US EPA is useless in the area of vehicular NOISE enforcement, especially since the de-funding of ONAC in 1981.

    With that said, Willy still thinks his flame shooting, egregiously LOUD, 49 Pontiac is somehow socially acceptable; therefore, the LOUD biker thuggery personality is still deeply embedded in his psyche…just like any other obsessive-compulsive disorder. I’m not impressed!

    Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
    Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook

  8. Sepultura plays music. John Tesh plays music. Don’t much care for either one. Truth is, like most people, I’m somewhere in the middle. Like most things though, when one’s likes fall toward the extremes, the love hate thing tends to happen. Some will applaud loudly, others will boo and hiss. If you don’t like the reactions modify your tastes to match the mainstream. If you’re going to keep on keepin on… don’t cry about it and play the martyr.

  9. As a 31-year veteran of the Houston PD who fought, with fervor, the illegal, intrusive, unregulated motorcycle, auto and truck cult[ure] in my area of responsibility, I find Willy’s obfuscation and denial of culpability laughable and most telling.

    If one is willing to do the research, they will discover that unregulated motor vehicle noise has become the #1 destroyer of good daily quality of life standards for many millions of Canadian and American citizens, especially those living and working in congested urban settings. Though unregulated, LOUD motorcycles comprise only a small fraction of the total number of vehicles operating on the roadways at any given time, they comprise some 70+% of the citizenry complaints regarding noisy vehicles – a simple Google search will confirm this.

    I must say that after policing the LOUD vehicle cult[ure] for such an extended period of time, I found that illegal vehicular noise was the absolute best “probable cause” for a traffic stop? Why? Never, in my 31-year career, did a single classification of motor vehicle infractions produce such a large number of warrant arrests. I often advise law enforcement that any officer who will proactively police illegally LOUD motor vehicles should see a dramatic rise in their warrant arrest statistics…why is that?

    It has been my personal experience that the hedonistic/narcissistic personality-type which modifies a motor vehicle to make illegal, intrusive NOISE, then proceed out onto a public roadway and uses that noise as an instrument of assault on our most innocent – those most negatively physiologically susceptible to this vehicular NOISE nonsense, and does so with impunity and no sense of regard or remorse, this is the VERY SAME personality-type that far too often involves themselves in other forms of antisocial conduct; therefore, it’s only logical, self-evident, that these narcissists and hedonists consider themselves above the law and don’t take care of their business and obligations – no respect, no honor, no dignity, no ethical foundation.

    I attempted to provide a sampling, via URL’s, of my experiences and my enforcement efforts in the area of LOUD motorcycles and the selfish-bully-thugs that operate them, much like Willy, but this forum would not post the article. But for clarification purposes, as a law enforcement officer I do have contempt for Willy and those with his arrogant and selfish personality and yes, as a matter of fact, I do have a visceral disdain for the Loud Biker Cult[ure]…why?

    I have always possessed a visceral disdain for bullies – and the fact is, a “man,” an honorable veteran, a philanthropist, a true/real motorcyclist, does NOT modify a motor vehicle to make illegal, intrusive noise then proceed out onto a public roadway and use that noise to bully and assault children…this behavior is indicative of a selfish-bully-thug!

    With all sincerity,

    Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
    Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook

    • Wow…do you know when you can immediately tell that you don’t like someone…

      Rick, I don’t know Willy, and I’d have no idea if I’d like Willy. But your “contempt” for him reveals much about you. Your narrow minded likely uneducated opinions that reveal so many stereotypes and biases are indicative of what’s wrong with you, and to many what’s wrong with policing in general. And you hate bullies eh? Yet you don’t hesitate to throw your PD badge around and call Willy names even though he’s admitted that he WAS a selfish punk. As such a big honorable “man” what have you admitted to?

      Thanks goodness you’re retired.

          • You clearly liked to use profiling or certain “kinds” of motocyclists as a means to warrant execution. Thus Willy is right about profiling. Anything more detailed I want a retainer. I charge by the line of whining posts.

            • 1) Actually, it’s not “profiling” that I’m using, it good police work in that I have established, from experiential knowledge, the fact that the personality-type who rides and drives illegally loud has an “above average” record of engaging in other forms of antisocial conduct and in addition, these same individuals have a higher propensity of not paying their fines or showing-up for their court dates; hence, a higher warrant ratio.

              It’s not “profiling” when an officer uses a legitimate infraction in order to initiate a traffic stop or conduct an investigation – in fact, that’s where most arrests of wanted suspects are initiated…not from the actual running of a warrant, but through routine traffic stops.

              One of my most recent traffic stops comes to mind just prior to my retirement. I stopped a gentleman for a “coffee-can” or “fart-can” muffler on a small diminutive sports car. He did not have sufficient identification or a drivers license, but a routine check revealed that he had been driving around Houston, Harris County for years and he was wanted for sexual abuse of a child…no one took the initiative to stop him, yet he was illegally LOUD and obviously stood out in traffic. I stopped another male for simply not having a front plate on his Mercedes Benz. He had approximately 30 or 40 aliases and I don’t remember how many offenses he was wanted for out of State….these are just two very simple examples of traffic and warrant arrests. Again, this is not “profiling,” but good proactive police work. Don’t want to be stopped by the police, maintain your OEM-quiet, legal muffler…maintain your vehicle and respect others…chances are, you will have no problems.

              LOUD motor vehicle arrests do not simply encompass motorcycles; in fact, I probably incarcerated twice as many LOUD auto and truck operators as I did loud bikers, but I did have a popular biker bar in my beat and another one adjacent to my beat. I will say this, in my 31-years as a Houston Police Officer and having worked some of the meanest, nastiest, defiled, segments of the City and having dealt with some true low-lifes by anyone’s definition, my personal interaction with the Loud Biker Cult[ure] stunned me.

              Never in my 31-years did I cite and arrest a more arrogant, entitled, lying, deceiving, hedonistic, narcissistic, group of men, young and old, as I did when policing the LOUD Biker Cult[ure]. The perjury, the lies, the threats, the crying and wailing…it would have been laughable had it not been so pathetic…you would think I was policing a 12-year old boy and had threatened to take their toy away.

              I have personally owned 31-motorcycles since 12-years-of-age. I have ridden professionally for years as a motorcycle officer and accumulated hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles on motorcycles, I know motorcyclists and I know bikers – but never was I so taken aback by any group as I was by the unprofessional, arrogant, LOUD biker cult[ure] – including doctors, PhD’s, lawyers, blue-collar/white-collar, Patriot Guard, Christian fakes, philanthropists…never!!!

              The fact remains: A “man” does NOT modify a motor vehicle to make illegal NOISE then proceed out onto a public roadway and use that illegal, intrusive, NOISE as an instrument of assault against children, the elderly and the handicapped…our families…this is NOT the behavior of a “man,” but this is the behavior of a bully-thug…and you can take that to the bank!!!

              2) Then, you obfuscate with your “retainer” nonsense knowing full well that you’ve no argument and are simply offended by the truth…I’m NOT impressed!

      • Yes, I’m very glad that Willy decided to… “I just bought a 2017 Harley-Davidson Street Glide and had Harley’s performance-minded Street Cannon slip-on mufflers installed. They flow slightly better than stock pipes and have a nice growl that isn’t the least bit offensive and would surely pass any roadside decibel testing.” “My 1949 Pontiac, however, is another story. That beast shoots flames from the tailpipes and rumbles like thunder when I mash the gas. However, the only attention I get in that car, from the cops or anyone else, is the thumbs up. Go figure.”

        Just for the sake of clarification…after 31-years of policing, some of those years spent policing LOUD bikers, auto’s and truckers…I’ve reached an age where I could care LESS what you think about me or my opinion. Those who ride louder than OEM, like Willy’s NOISE emanating from a “Street Cannon slip-on muffler,” or from his 49 Pontiac, are irresponsible, selfish, narcissistic and do NOT respect their fellow-man…basically, a bully on two wheels or four wheels seeking attention and affirmation like a pimple-faced 6th grade hormone laden girl. If that offends you “rui,” so be it!

        • It’s funny that you caught “rui” – a lot of cops who would stop me in my youth just to fuck with me loved having fun with my name. I knew you seemed familiar. Often what I drove or rode got me “profiled” even though it was legal, meanwhile half the good folk at the country club that i worked at drove home pissed out of their minds every night. I guess people like you don’t get what’s obvious to the rest of us.

          Willie, who apparently doesn’t respect his fellow man like you so obviously do – his mufflers are legal, and possibly his ’49 rod too. I have a Grand Sport on order that also sounds like rolling thunder, also legal with its 94db exhaust, though not in South Korea (I’m not kidding)…maybe you’d be happy there…

          But it’s ‘Merica – they love their cars, beach boys and all with and old people always reminiscing about cruising and drag racing. Chevy sold 40000 Corvettes last year alone, most with the exhaust flap package…but fuk that! Let’s get ’em! ‘Mericans against loud Corvettes!!!

          • Considering the focus of this conversation and the article, I can see that you’re right in the middle of your element – the Loud Biker Cult[ure] and it’s related narcissistic thuggery. No one is profiling you, you’re simply reaping what you sow.

            Much can be discerned by the way a man rides or drives and the way he treats his neighbor and his fellow citizens. Much like a man can be summed up by his choice of words, his vocabulary, his vulgarity. It is written that “from the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks”…

            I believe this truism is relevant to the way a man rides and drives his choice of conveyance…if one, with volition, operates a motor vehicle with an aftermarket or modified OEM exhaust that emits NOISE greater than the OEM exhaust (limited to noise levels for safe exposure by the general public) – this behavior is indicative of selfishness, entitlement, arrogance, disrespect – and – if you’re stopped and investigated for your antisocial behavior, that’s not profiling…that’s just good police work by a “peace” officer…you would do well to understand the difference and learn to respect your neighbor. Stop playing the self-righteous victim…it’s pathetic.

            Rick Holtsclaw

    • I purposely did not mention my law enforcement background in hopes this article would expose the likes of Rick here. If a judge were present I’d “rest my case.”

      • Officers who compromise their oath of office and personal, professional ethics and integrity by riding LOUD are one of the leading causes of the proliferation of illegally LOUD vehicular thuggery on our public roadways today. You did not mention your law enforcement background because you are clearly aware that in doing so you make yourself out to be a hypocrite – but for far too many of our LEO’s today, that’s status quo. Shame on you Willy!

        Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
        Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

        • The oath I took was to faithfully, honestly and IMPARTIALLY perform my duties. My years of service also taught me that insulting others when my argument fails is neither good professionally or morally. So on that note I’ll simply thank you for affirming the suspicions the article I wrote points toward.

        • Wow, you admit that you profiled loud motorcycles in order to increase warrant arrests, say it’s not profiling but good policing to sweep an identifiable population in order to embark on this fishing expedition, and accuse others of compromising their oath.

          I’d rather my retired cops play a little fast and loose with noise bylaws than with the Constitution.

          And you’ve constructed this persona where, out of all the issues in the world, you contend that one of the greatest evils is loud motorcycles (not all vehicles, mind, just motorcycles) you have Facebook, Youtube, WordPress and no doubt link them to this article, you create an “organization”, take up acres of cyberspace on a forum where I’m sure you haven’t the faintest idea what the laws actually are, and have the audacity to call Willy the narcissist.

          Have a nice day.

          • 1) I’m not sure if you have a cognitive problem, an inability to understand fact, or an inability to differentiate between fact and fiction. It is NOT profiling when a police officer uses legitimate probable cause, probable cause supported by legal precedent, to make a stop for investigation purposes. If I’m stopping Black males exclusively, because I know from experiential knowledge that Black males in my area of responsibility are involved in certain crimes at a higher statistical ratio, that is NOT probable cause because the Black male is simply operating a motor vehicle but has done nothing to warrant a traffic stop —- that is illegal “profiling.” The hedonistic/narcissistic LOUD thug biker is not being stopped because he’s riding a motorcycle, he is being stopped because he’s violating the law – a well-established law which coincidentally has proven to have a higher rate of warrant arrests associated with it…THAT IS NOT PROFILING…THAT IS SIMPLY ENFORCING THE LAW AGAINST AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE THAT IS CLEARLY IN VIOLATION OF THE TRAFFIC CODE! Can you comprehend that tough guy?

            2) Your “retired cops?” Do you own some retired cops? Breaking News: When anyone plays “fast and loose” with noise laws – well established “criminal laws” enacted by Local, State and Federal legislation…YOU ARE PLAYING WITH THE CONSTITUTION – BOTH CIVIL LIBERTIES AND UNDER SPECIFIED CIRCUMSTANCES – CIVIL RIGHTS…AND THE VIOLATOR IS CULPABLE OF BREAKING THE LAW AND VIOLATING THE CIVIL LIBERTIES AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS (IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES) OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC! Can you comprehend that tough guy?

            3) Had you read my articles void a discriminatory eye, you would have noted that I said unregulated motor vehicle noise has become the #1 destructive element to good daily quality of life standards for many millions of American Citizens – especially those residing and working in our congested urban areas. Though motorcycles comprise only approximately 3% of the motoring traffic at any given time, they comprise approximately 70% of the complaints from the citizenry associated with vehicular noise. This is a commonsense issue that a simple Google search will fully support. Also, I have, for years, been the go-to guy for an organization that receives complaints from around the United States relevant to environmental noise – I would say that 75% of those complaints regarding motor vehicle noise are targeted toward the Loud Biker Cult[ure]….Can you comprehend that tough guy?

            4) I have clearly and articulately provided the truth about the motor vehicle laws for an individual who specifically spoke of the US EPA requirements and the SAE J-2825 Stationary Motorcycle Testing Procedure. If you can’t read, comprehend or perhaps have difficulty coming to terms with the “truth” regarding LOUD Biker Thuggery, that’s on YOU tough guy – grow a pair, stop the juvenile, irresponsible behavior – learn to respect others and take the playing cards out of your spokes…we’re NOT impressed with your bully-thug Behavior!

            IF you disagree with any point regarding motor vehicle muffler laws, enforcement protocol in any of my comments, articles or videos…discuss specifics, not some cowardly generalization lacking specificity reflecting your obstinate attitude to the law and the enforcement of same – I don’t have time to put up with LOUD biker thuggery and a juvenile defense of the irrational and stupid-immature behavior – let’s talk specifics or keep you comments to your narcissistic self!

            With ALL Sincerity,

            Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
            Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

            • I love you, Dicky Holty!

              You are a man!

              You fight against the worst of society; those with jobs and such. Not the honourable peace officers … oh .. wait … that McGarvey guy is a lawyer? Shoot. So, he is considered yadda yadda … court … not allowed to f*ck about?

              Ooops! Looks like you’ve been Trumped. Dicky Holty.

            • “YOU ARE PLAYING WITH THE CONSTITUTION – BOTH CIVIL LIBERTIES AND UNDER SPECIFIED CIRCUMSTANCES – CIVIL RIGHTS…AND THE VIOLATOR IS CULPABLE OF BREAKING THE LAW AND VIOLATING THE CIVIL LIBERTIES AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS (IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES) OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC! Can you comprehend that tough guy?”

              Uh, let me break this to you MISTER Holtsclaw – this forum is called CANADA Moto Guide.
              Maybe you are not aware, but Canada is not a part of the U.S.A. and as such has entirely different form of democracy.
              We do not have things like ‘open carry’ laws here and I hope we never do – just my opinion.
              I may not agree with everything Willy has to say, but I will defend vehemently his right to express it in a calm and rational manner.
              This is called discourse and debate.
              The likelihood of anything said on this forum making an iota of difference in your old school neo-con world view is nil, and vice-versa.
              If I’ve used too many big words, or confused you with facts, I apologize.
              Don’t go away mad, please just go away.

              • 1) TK4, I’m aware of the forum and it’s origin…thank you MISTER.

                2) The conversations I’ve contributed to are related to LOUD motorcycles in general and Willy’s false mantra regarding profiling and law enforcement protocol…also, responses to US EPA regulations specifically…so your concerns are irrelevant.

                3) I could care less what your Socialist based society thinks about “open carry” or concealed carry…personally, I carry regularly – and I will protect my Wife and myself if necessary as opposed to being a pathetic victim..but thank you none-the-less!

                4) You are free to buddy-up to Willy…not my concern…birds of a feather…

                5) Exactly…I have entered into a discourse and debated and rebutted the responses…thank you.

                6) No worry, you’re obviously “entitled” and uninformed; therefore, you “big” words and your irrelevant input are of no substance…

                7) Apology accepted…you’re now free to go away, seeing that you were never invited and your input is irrelevant to the subject at hand, so again, go away…in any manner you so choose!

                Rick Holtsclaw, HOUSTON, TEXAS PD/Retired
                Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress

                The Truth about Loud Motorcycles the Police Won’t or Can’t Tell You: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/the-truth-about-loud-motorcycles-the-police-wont-or-cant-tell-you/

                • Oooh, take me to the Burn Ward !

                  Did you take the time to read any of my other comments on this subject ?

                  As for being invited, neither were you ?

                  But I don’t recall having apologized to you for anything, please enlighten me.

                  And Have a Nice Day – that’s what we say here in CANADA.

                • TK4…I see the response option to your last comment at 8:29 PM is not available…hmm…. BTW…I was invited and in response I’ll leave you with…. eh???

  10. I just wish bikes that have loud exhaust would admit that the only reason that they have tem is because they like it that way.

    Stop making bullshit excuses about saving lives and shit

  11. I agree with TK4 on the bigger issue. Here’s an analogy – the Supreme Court of Canada when deciding whether to uphold the obscenity provisions of the Criminal Code decided it was okay to outlaw “obscene” material; but then went on to talk about how we assess what goes over the line. The test was a community standard of tolerance test; does the subject matter not only offend you, but is it so offensive you cannot even tolerate others’ enjoyment of it in our society. Does doing it make you not just offensive, but a true pariah? It’s also contextual; what is okay in downtown Montreal may not be okay in a kindergarten library.

    Apply the same test to pipes. Sure, I’ll tolerate others using louder than I like pipes; but at a certain level they simply become anti-social, inconsistent with living in a civil society amongst others. Rui’s kids next door seem like the former; you don’t like it, but hey, kids are kids. On the other hand, if they start pointing a 1500 watt PA with EV’s and a Justin Bieber song on continuous loop at your yard, they’ve gone beyond the pale. If they were at a Bieber concert it would be fine.

    So, at the track, maybe even at Daytona, Laconia, Sturgis and Port Dover, knock yourself out with straight pipes. On the track, put on your loud can and have at it. But in suburbia at 5:00 a.m. when you are riding your Dyna to your job as a mutual fund trader, shut the eff up and put some decent mufflers on!

  12. Bottom line – it doesn’t matter what we think – its what OTHER PEOPLE think.
    If they don’t like it bad enough they’ll legislate against it and that’s that.
    Editor Mark: do we really need to keep beating this horse ? Its dead, if its hooves were not nailed to the stall it would be pushing up the daisies.
    Neil Graham: I’m happy for your mother, but maybe she needs to turn her hearing aids up.
    End of rant – until the next time…

    • I think you’re missing Willy’s point because he’s not arguing for loud pipes – I think 90% of us agree the overly loud pipes are dumb and hurt motorcyclists. He’s putting things into perspective, and frankly if we cared about what OTHER PEOPLE thought most of us wouldn’t be riding motorcycles.

      Bikers with loud pipes – considered always bad. But one can option even the lowliest of cars with sound systems that approach 140db – I guess that’s not bad. And there’s no shortage of cars that come with adjustable exhausts legally from the factory, some tested at near 100db – again clearly not bad to those “other people”.

      As far as I’m concerned, keep making the case to keep exhausts reasonable, but leave the freaking out to the get off my lawn types and stop giving a crap.

  13. “My point here is a great deal of this hyperbole regarding loud pipes is simply a smokescreen manufactured by The Man to rid the streets of evil bikers.”

    Sorry Willy, I’m calling bullshit.

    That “man” you’re talking about IS your fellow bikers; the lawyer and carpenter you were riding with along with all the other (dare I say it?) old men who belly up to the HD accessory counter and plunk down for pipes called Street Cannons. The MOCO sells that as an easily digestible serving of “rebel” so yesterday’s “punk” doesn’t have to accept that he is today’s “man”. It’s all part of cultivating, packaging and selling an image.

    Living in the country east of Toronto, I’m serenaded by loud vehicles all the time. There are lots of loud trucks and cars but the number of HD’s that I would call obnoxiously loud far exceeds all other MC’s as well as the 4 wheel vehicles.

    As far as I’m concerned an HD with stock pipes sounds good, like a motorcycle that is working properly and well tuned. The aftermarket/accessory BLAT-BLAT-BLAT sounds like an old row crop tractor with a rusted out muffler.

    • Well said, Joel.
      It’s tiresome when bikers complain about being hassled by the police when they deliberately project an image associated with a toughguy “Rebel”. I would say that very image is what attracts them to it in the first place, whether or not they personally fit the stereotype. If criminal biker gangs disappeared and only cops rode Harleys you can bet many bikers would no longer find the image attractive. Also, comparing the noise from your bike to leaf blowers, lawnmowers, and air conditioners is silly. The noise bikers make is frivolous and only for personal enjoyment. Nobody runs their air conditioner because the compressor is “music to their ears” and society is less tolerant of intrusive things done solely for personal enjoyment.
      I think the “save lives” bull has been put to bed, but I always mused why, if bikers are so concerned for their safety and visibility, don’t they wear hi-viz riding gear as well? Obviously, because it doesn’t fit the image.

      • I guess I’m a toughguy rebel wanabee criminal because I sometimes ride a Harley and wear jeans and have a classic biker jacket. I even often have a beard and even long hair! Here I was thinking I just liked the look of old classic bikes and would dress to fit…didn’t that look exist long before there were 1%’ers? I’ve always thought I’d look silly if I wore the leathers & knee pucks that i wear on my CBR or the armor that I use with my DRZ on the hog, but little did i know I just really want to be a toughguy rebel criminal wannabe!

        It’s always amusing being psycho analysed by strangers, especially by guys who likely look like groupies for Bill Gates.

        • “didn’t that look exist long before there were 1%’ers?”
          Actually, I don’t think it did.

          I think the classic/stereotypical 1%er look emerged from the early 60’s. I’m not certain, but the Hells Angels website says it was started in 1948 by WW2 bomber pilots/crew and in the pictures I saw of them until the early 60’s they looked like rumpled fonzies from Happy Days or rockers from Quadrophenia.

          I don’t care what outfit you like to wear on what bike. Willy made the point about differentiating oneself from what he characterized as the “man”, both by fashion and by installing the provocatively named “Street Cannons” and his experiences interacting with others. The Houston cop above articulated a bias that is pretty common among his profession (in my opinion). Whether it is justified or well deserved IN TEXAS, I don’t know.

          But I do know that he and most other police officers have no intention of stopping a group of H.O.G. – type riders (the man) on their Harleys, even if they are obnoxiously loud.

          Personally I’ve worn the same type of gear for years (textile, jeans, hiking boots & full face) while riding different road bikes, including a Harley and I have been known to go for a mild trail ride wearing the same stuff on my 530. I’m not sure if I’m fashion unconscious, cheap, comfortable or just don’t give a f***. Probably all 4.

    • Ride OEM, ride legally, respect our families, be kind and all will go away….because one opts to ride a motorcycle does not relieve the motorcyclist of their obligation to obey the law and respect their neighbor.

  15. trying to debate this is like trying to debate religion, facts don’t matter, some people just got to believe.

  16. I like loud pipes. More than once I’ve had a cager start to move over on me, and I would blip the throttle. More effective than the pathetic horn most bikes are equipped with, Sure I could change the horn but where’s the music in that? I have heard pickup trucks louder than my bike, and buses. I take a page from my 87 year old mother. Her apartment is on a hill and she hates trucks. I asked her about motorbikes. She said, “oh, bikes are fine.” I love the old dear.

  17. Bikes with straight pipes sound like crap and are obnoxious. Give me the deep rumble of aftermarket mufflers anytime.

  18. Yes, I can honestly say that loud bikes (mostly cruisers) disrupt my ability to enjoy my property in the summer. They aren’t the only offenders – there are also some very loud pickup trucks (mostly big diesels, some gas) and muscle cars with free-flowing exhausts, and ricers with fart cans. Most of those are only really loud if their drivers are trying to make noise. The big twin cruisers, however, make a hell of a racket just riding by (I live about 150 m from an intersection on upper Centennial parkway in Hamilton) or pulling away from a stop.

    As I say, the bikes are the worst offenders, and they’re loud enough that I can’t hear my TV when they go by if I have windows open. Same experience in restaurant and bar patios in town – the worst noise offenders are almost always cruisers.

    I hate all the overly loud vehicles, but as a group the motorcycles stand out the most, especially to the non-riding crowd.

  19. We live in an ever more crowded world and loud pipes just make that world more chaotic. I love bikes but their growl has to be within reason — and the law.

  21. I remember the parking lot at school back in the 80’s being full of bikes that were piped. Actually, most of the students were driving cars that have lost their exhausts back then before the days of galvanized pipes. Rarely heard people complain. Today, the every increasing holier than thou crowd – which coincides with the aging pop. – turn their rage into letter writing campaigns to their elected reps, determined to rid this earth of people having more fun then them. It’s all pathetic, really.

    An example – I have what I consider to be a backyard oasis and I often float there blissfully – drink in one hand, water gun in another 😉 …but my neighbors have kids – loud crying screaming evil fighting kids who “rack disciprine”. Now I can rage against the world, or just choose to pour myself another drink.

    I’ve been taught (as many immigrants have i suspect) to adapt to the world around you and not expect the world to adapt to you, and save any fights for what’s really worth fighting over. Loud pipes ARE annoying, but so are a great many MANY things, so STFU 🙂

  22. So… because you’ve become old and reasonable we should just let selfish young loud punks do what they want to alienate the public and GUARANTEE there will be even more restrictions on motorcycles, rather than support pre-emptive, minor restrictions (how about COMPLY WITH TRANSPORT CANADA REGULATIONS as a start?).

    • I’m all for minor restrictions. Draconian enforcement allowing law enforcement to pull over and scrutinize every rider on a motorcycle is my concern. At this rate there will be check stops set up exclusively for bikes…Even if your pipes aren’t loud.

      • ” I’m all for minor restrictions. Draconian enforcement allowing law enforcement to pull over and scrutinize every rider on a motorcycle is my concern. At this rate there will be check stops set up exclusively for bikes…Even if your pipes aren’t loud.”

        Let me break this to you Willy, they already can.

  23. Willy, are your new Harley’s “performance minded Street Cannon” slip-on mufflers stamped as meeting the current noise testing standards? Or are they stamped for “off-road or competition use only”.

  25. ” Back then my pipes were loud because I was a selfish punk who was constantly seeking attention.”

    – Methinks thou dost protest TOO much….

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