A Quebec man is taking the SAAQ to court over rising motorcycle registration costs, seven years after the prices were first hiked.
In 2008, Quebec’s motoryclists were hit by massive rate hikes from the provincial insurance and licencing body. The rise in fees made it financially unfeasible for many riders to continue using sportbikes. There has been some fluctuation in the rates since 2008, but the province’s riders still pay very high insurance rates.
CTV Montreal is reporting Michael Mosca, who launched a lawsuit against the SAAQ to fight the rate hikes, is finally having his day in court, after starting legal proceedings back in 2010. He’s claiming the SAAQ rates are unjustified. They’re countering with the argument that motorcycles are more expensive to insure, due to the expense of injuries suffered by riders. Mosca believes that since many motorcycle accidents are caused by cars, motorcyclists should not be held responsible for those increased costs.
We’re sure to hear more about this as it’s battled out in court. It’s a case Canadian riders should keep a very close eye on, as it could influence thinking in other jurisdictions (Saskatchewan, in particular) that have hiked motorcycle insurance or registration rates, claiming high accident costs make it necessary. A win by the SAAQ could embolden other provinces or insurers to raise rates further; a loss by the SAAQ could serve notice that motorcyclists are fed up and going to force change.
CTV’s article also notes there’s another lawsuit in the system trying to force the government to reverse the hike in motorcyclists’ drivers licence fees.
So, it’s been a year since the case was heard and a Google search turns up nothing. I can only guess that ‘we lost’?
QUEBEC is a piece of shit province, nothing works properly and laws are so complicated just with the purpose to be different to the other Canadian provinces
I have 4 motorcycles (ya, ya, I know I don’t need 4 but that’s not the point – no one really Needs even one) and one pickup.
The joy starts when the SAA de mon Q charges me full price to for insurance on all 4 bikes know bloody well that I can only drive one at a time.
They then proceed to charge me extra for my truck because the engine is larger than 4 liters (oddly, the basteerds don’t give back to someone who drives a small engined car).
To add insult to injury, they charge me more for my drivers permit because I dare have a motorcycle endorsement, regardless if I own a motorcycle or not.
What really torques me out is the fact that most of what I pay to the SAA de mon Q is for “bodily injury insurance” – the exact same insurance that I pay for 4 x bikes, 1 x truck, 1 x permit and 1 x extra for motorcycle permit.
I’m paying 7 times for the same bloody insurance – bodily injury. I still need need fire, theft and all the other insurances on all my vehicles, except that I get a discount from the private sector for insuring more than one vehicle. Not so with the SAA de mon Q.
Just charge me once for the most expensive vehicle and be done with it or at the very least, give a me multi-vehicle discount. Le Quebec sait faire.
I encourage all Quebec motorcyclists to take their trips outside of “la belle province” – the Maritimes, Ontario and New England have a lot to offer!
Kak;
You raise an excellent point and one which is an issue, not only for motorcyclists, but to a lesser degree for all vehicle insurance; That motorcyclists as a group do not let others ride their machines. Besides, and to borrow a phrase from the US gun lobby: Cars and motorcycles don’t cause accidents, drivers and riders do!!
So perhaps the insurance component ought to be a function of the driving permit, rather than the vehicle registration and, as it is for the entire rest of the world, based on your driving record.
Then there is the issue that the government claims that these insurance funds are for the treatment of the victims in the case of road accidents – so how come bicyclists don’t contribute to the fund? They happen to be responsible for most of heir accidents – and now Codere is suggesting that it would be legal for them to not stop at stop signs? He also wants to increase the fines associated with dooring – and dooring implies that cyclists would be able to legally lane split . . . . so what about cyclists?
Unfortunately, I suspect that these bias points will not have been raised by the plaintiff during the trial and your points (and mine) may well not have been presented to the courts.
My experience is that the courts tend to require a hard push to get them to disagree with an established law – sort of like the fact that it takes a hard push to get something a rest to start moving – so to win this requires a very solid case.
My recent attempts to reach Mr. Mosca last week were, unfortunately not successful . . . . it would be more than interesting to hear how things did go in the courtroom.
Hi Bram Frank
I agree that motorcyclists generally don’t let others ride their bikes, but even if I do lend one of my bikes to someone, that person has to have a motorcycle license (or endorsement) which means that he is automatically covered for bodily harm on his permit.
Actually, he is triple covered for bodily harm : 1 x on his own permit, 1 x for the supplement he has to pay for the bike license, and 1 x from the plates on whichever bike of mine he chooses to ride.
And I absolutely agree that cyclists who insist on riding the roads, instead of the thousands of kms of cycle paths that we all paid for to build and maintain, should should be paying into the fund. From what I’ve seen everywhere, most are practically invisible, day or night, don’t follow the rules of the road, are erratic and probably suicidal.
If you manage to contact Mr. Mosca, let me know if there is anyway for me to reach him please!
I appeared before the committee that was advising the SAAQ when it held hearings in 2006.
As it happens, after my presentation the panel met with me separately and privately and explained that the real problem was that the fund that backs up the SAAQs insurance program has to maintain a minimum balance – it was lower than allowed, in large part because a previous government had ‘raided’ to the tune of $2.4 Billion for the general fund (which incidentally was more money than the fund required to make up their shortfall) – when I asked why the government didn’t simply replenish the accounts they smiled and pointed out that the money for this would need to come from the public.
In retrospect, the government SHOULD have repaid the money from the general tax revenues, since the general fund benefitted from the cash grab – so drivers (and riders) were being double-taxed for moneys misappropriated that had benefitted the entirety of the population.
Bear in mind too, that the fees that cyclists pay are for riding for six months – if you try to suspend your plate for the winter months you get back nothing – do the same with a car and you will get a pro-rated refund.
Note too that it is actually illegal to ride a motorcycle in Quebec from December 15 through March 15 because the rules require the use of snow tires, so unless you trailer your bike to a warmer climate, we need to consider that the cost for plates for a sport bike is on the order of FIFTY DOLLARS PER WEEK, WINTER AND SUMMER – and the extra cost of the drivers’ license can be factored in as well.
Here’s a link to an article about the increases . . . . .
https://canadamotoguide.com/2006/04/25/saaq-lies-damn-lies-statisitcs/
OK, so I hit ‘post comment’ before checking my math . . . .
Note that the $50/week number does not cover both winter and summer months, but rather just the half year riding season.
I’ve been watching this closely! Getting any real information though, is hard. Quebec Insurance, like SGI, does no real causation studies and no real data is put to use. Instead, every piece of information is geared to “tell the story” of why rates need to be increased. Not what the cause is or how to decrease the accidents. Why? As an insurance company…the hard cold truth is…they don’t care. They only care about rates and making sure there is enough to operate each year. They are a “business” that generates money from people “using insurance”.
Quebec is trotting out the same tired horse that Ontario whines about – “medical costs.” Aren’t all motorcyclists covered for medical costs by standard provincial health care? Now if they’re talking lost wage insurance, or other “extras,” then put in the clause to make that type of coverage optional. In effect, we’re paying for provincial medical coverage through taxes and various “surcharges” (that aren’t a tax, according to Dalton McSquinty) and then paying again with our motorcycle insurance.
Where are the national motorcycle organizations who should be at the forefront of this issue? CMA? MMIC? MMC? Anyone? Bueller?
Actually, no they aren’t.
In Quebec, the victims of vehicle accidents are compensated and their medical costs paid for by the SAAQ. Now, this includes the pedestrians, bicyclists and anyone actually injured in an altercation involving a vehicle, which begs the question . . . .
Why aren’t bicyclists required to pay a registration fee for their machines?
And, for that matter, since we’re allocating costs, what about pedestrians and people who ride on public transit?
Rhonda Opper Cwynar, bet SGI is watching this closely!
The problem is the nofault system of Quebec govt. The cars dont pay any attention to motorcycles ans bicycles because they know that it’s impossible to be sue. It is the jungle law: smaller is your vehicule in Quebec… more your are at risk ! The years of experience in driving dont really count for the plate price…
Our freedom in qc are so …
Well whi care
Our true biker love to show there
Money and like to said we paid 545$ + 65$ per year for plate and driver …
And when its time to protest
Oups no i cant take my 35000$ bike somewhere in case somebody scratch it or i like to show my money and tell yeah the gouv are just piece of …
But when its time to really make the difference !! Euhh